Languages and Scripts

[k_a_webb]

I’ve always wanted to learn Latin. The problem I’m finding is that I think I’ve forgotten how to learn languages, which probably sounds a little strange. When I was four/five I learnt how to read, write and speak English (I was an early learner because my mum was determined I wasn’t going to be behind, like she was, and it meant I’d read every single book my first school owned by the time I was eight). Now that I’m going back to them I find that I can’t remember how I learnt English and I think that’s having an effect on wanting to learn other languages. I wish I’d had a chance to learn at least one other language when I was younger, but that’s something that can never happen now.

The other problem this is causing is with the creating of my conlangs and scripts. Part of me wants to start with the scripts, because that’s the easy part, but I think it would be better to start with the basics of the language before starting to play with scripts. Although some of the scripts are for ancient languages that are almost entirely forgotten – the only thing still used is the script. I’ve never created a conlang before, so if someone could help that would be great.

Mirrored from K. A. Jones Writing.

Comments

Okay...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

I happen to be an expert on this topic, short of gods like Mark Okrand. You can ask me any specific questions and I'll probably be able to answer them or point you in the right direction.

First, there are two basic approaches to making a constructed language:

1) The simple way. You pick some sounds and combine them into words. This is easy and it's great if you just want names or individual words. This is what most writers do.

2) The thorough way. You build a model language, usually starting with phonemes and then word construction. (Do not build the script first. Build the phoneme set first so that you know what you need letters of, if it's an alphabet or syllabary.) Make the grammar. Make a basic vocabulary, usually using something like the Swadesh list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list) for samples. Make some sample sentences.

Here is the conlang word maker (http://www.fantasist.net/wordmaker2.shtml) I use.

"Create a Language (http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Create_a_Language)" has relatively simple instructions. "The Language Construction Kit (http://www.zompist.com/kit.html)" is one of the more elaborate instructions.

Read about constructed languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructed_language).

"How to Build a Language (http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/EBook/chap03.html)" is really more of an overview of some famous conlangs.

My best tip for making something sound good is to mix and match from human languages. Pick a base language, start with its sounds, then delete at least one and add at least one new sound. Pick a base grammar and then change a few of the major points (subject-verb-object to subject-object-verb, or adjective-noun to noun-adjective, etc.). This prevents your language from being too close to a known source, but it will probably still be comprehensible. It's possible to build entirely from scratch but you really have to know what you're doing there.

Also: try to make a list of concepts that your literary culture has, which are not common concerns to English speakers. A culture always makes a rich vocabulary for whatever it considers important. So do that.

If you want a sample, I can send you the stuff for Torn Tongue; I was on the language development team for that, and it's quite complete for a model language.

Also I could make you a conlang. I build the things for fun or story worlds anyhow. I'm pretty busy right now, but I'm always hanging around you, so I may pick it up at some point.

The problem I’m finding is that I think I’ve forgotten how to learn languages, which probably sounds a little strange. <<

No, that's standard for Homo sapiens. The language acquisition window is open for babies, begins to close for young children, and is almost welded shut by the time puberty ends. I'm unusual because mine hasn't closed much. I would've been brilliant if I'd had more exposure early on, but I learned like a couple dozen words of Spanish just from television before I took any classes. I'm linguistic SillyPutty.

Re: Okay...

[kajones-writing.livejournal.com]

>>I'm linguistic SillyPutty.<<

James' brother is the same. He can pretty much go into any country and begin picking up the language. I wish I was the same, but ever since I started learning languages I've had trouble picking them up.

I would love an example. I think that would help more than reading about how to create a language right now, because I do understand the basics. For Thear the base is Latin, which I think makes creating my first language a little easier, and maybe a couple of Greek sounds, and I do plan on making that the first language I do some proper work on.

I'm also planning on creating some magical scripts - would you suggest I start with a language for those as well or can I just work on the script?

Re: Okay...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

>>James' brother is the same. He can pretty much go into any country and begin picking up the language.<<

Oh, that's awesome. I always love hearing about others.

>> I wish I was the same, but ever since I started learning languages I've had trouble picking them up. <<

Alas!

>>I would love an example. I think that would help more than reading about how to create a language right now, because I do understand the basics. <<

I have emailed you samples of Torn Tongue and Eofor.

>>For Thear the base is Latin, which I think makes creating my first language a little easier, and maybe a couple of Greek sounds, and I do plan on making that the first language I do some proper work on.<<

Okay, great, that's a perfect pair. Go with Greek and Latin for your parent languages. Mix up the sounds a little. Look at the ways they handle grammar and take some pieces from each. Frex, you might build the nouns and verbs like Greek and the prepositions and other stuff like Latin.

>>I'm also planning on creating some magical scripts - would you suggest I start with a language for those as well or can I just work on the script?<<

Depends on what you want to do with them. If you just want to use them for artistic decoration, you can start with a script. If you want to use bits of the language in a story, it is much saner to start with the language. Build the phoneme set, that's the main thing you need for this, the sounds.

Also decide whether you want an alphabet (one symbol equals approximately one phoneme), a syllabary (one symbol equals approximately one syllable), or ideographs (one symbol equals approximately one word). An alphabet is very efficient and has a limited set. Ideographs, however, have the advantage of being easier to screw around with if you don't want to build the phoneme set first; they don't have to relate closely to each other.

Oh, and when making a script, it helps to pick some base shapes that will repeat slightly and give it a cohesive look. Think of English with its pairs: b/d, d/p, i/j, etc. Tolkien's Elvish script uses a lot of humps with stems or tails that kind of resemble n/m, n/h, o/p, etc. So think about circles, squares, angles, stems, tails, dots, and whatever.

Maybe also consider what writing implements people use. Chinese has a flowing shape because of its brushes, Sumerian had triangles because it was pressed into clay, Norse runes were mostly straight because that was easier to carve into wood or stone.

Basically, think about what you want to do before you start. If you're SURE you want to do only a little piece, you can cut corners and jump right to the script. But if you cut corners then decide you want to develop the language before, that turns into a huge pain in the butt. If you think you're going to play with this over time and make it bigger, you'll be better off starting at the beginning with the sound set.